
Aurelien Drezet replied to the topic Quantum theory is incompatible with relativity: A proof beyond Bell's theorem in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
Dear Ruth, I would like to add a comment concerning the role of preferred frames in a quantum ontology and in connection with retrocausality. It is indeed possible to develope Bohmian like model without preferred frames. There is one recent approach by Sutherland but I also recently proposed a different one…[Read more]

Mark Stuckey replied to the topic In defense of a “singleworld” interpretation of quantum mechanics in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
Hi Jeff,
On p. 7 you write, “This intrinsic randomness allows new sorts of nonlocal probabilistic correlations for ‘entangled’ quantum states of separated systems.” We offer an explanation (couched in spacetime) of this fact in our post, Mysteries of QM and SR Share a Common Origin: No Preferred Reference Frame.
For example, in the simple…[Read more]

Ruth Kastner replied to the topic Quantum theory is incompatible with relativity: A proof beyond Bell's theorem in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
I’m afraid this is not the correct conclusion. While RTI is certainly not the usual ad hoc collapse theory, it certainly is a nonunitary objective reduction theory (see below). So it cannot be subject to your argument concerning unitaryonly theories. There is real dynamical reduction in TI–it just does not take the form that you’ve assumed…[Read more]

editor replied to the topic Quantum theory is incompatible with relativity: A proof beyond Bell's theorem in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
Ok, Ruth. I see. Then RTI is not really the usual collapse theory such as the GRW model for onevector. So, in RTI, there is no real dynamical collapse of the wave function. Then my analysis of collapse theories does not apply to RTI.
Now I think my analysis of unitary quantum theories will apply to RTI. See my paper section about the…[Read more]

Ruth Kastner replied to the topic Quantum theory is incompatible with relativity: A proof beyond Bell's theorem in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
But the existence of the observed correlation does not compel the idea that there is some sort of collapse signal that ‘travels faster than light.’ You might be supposing that such a ‘collapse signal’ is needed to enforce the correlation, but that is not the case in TI, where the correlation is enforced through the combination of the quantum state…[Read more]

Mark Stuckey started the topic Mysteries of QM and SR Share a Common Origin: No Preferred Reference Frame in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
I gave this talk at the conference “Quantum Information Revolution: Impact to Foundations?” held at Linnaeus University, Sweden, 1013 June 2019:
It is based on this paper published in Entropy last month:
https://www.mdpi.com/10994300/21/7/692/pdf
The takehome message is that far from being…[Read more]

editor replied to the topic Beyond Bell? in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
So, you also agree that “in the second scenario, in which Bob’s measurement precedes (in the lab frame) all of Alice’s measurements”, “Since Alice cannot know Bob’s outcome before that event enters her back light cone, all she can predict with certainty at points on her worldline before making those measurements is that, whatever they are, they…[Read more]

Nikolay L. Chuprikov posted an update in the group 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell’s theorem 5 years ago
As is known, when discussing Bell inequalities, it is very important to identify all (explicit and implicit) assumptions that are important for deriving these inequalities. Our goal is to draw attention to one assumption, which plays a key role in the analysis of these inequalities, but at the same time are erroneous from our point of view. The…[Read more]


Richard Healey replied to the topic Beyond Bell? in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
In my previous reply I said that when the Born Rule is applied from an agent situation indexed to a spacetime point p on Bob’s worldline that is timelike later than Bob’s outcome (such as point 3 in Figure 1) it yields chance 0 or 1 for each of Alice’s measurement outcomes in regions a – e. So from that agent situation, each of Alice’s outcomes is…[Read more]

editor replied to the topic Beyond Bell? in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
Thanks for your clarification, Richard!
But I cannot agree with you. I think the Born Rule must be applied at a time, while this would not necessarily introduce a preferred frame in relativity as some people think, although my new argument says the opposite.
The reason is that if the Born Rule is not applied at a time for a joint measurement of…[Read more]

editor replied to the topic Quantum theory is incompatible with relativity: A proof beyond Bell's theorem in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
You said “no way for Alice to check that when she detected, say particle #25, that Bob did not get that particle, because in order to do that, the two would have to exchange classical information faster than light.”
Yes, you are correct. But this is not necessary to verify the anticorrelation. They just need to record the results, and then…[Read more]

Mark Stuckey joined the group 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell’s theorem 5 years ago

Ruth Kastner replied to the topic Quantum theory is incompatible with relativity: A proof beyond Bell's theorem in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
Thanks Shan for this question. If the measurement events are spacelike separated, then according to relativity, there is no invariant time order for the two events. That is, it’s not possible to consider them simultaneous in any invariant sense–that would pick out a preferred frame, and relativity doesn’t allow that. For an observer heading…[Read more]

Richard Healey replied to the topic Beyond Bell? in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
The Born Rule should always be applied not at a time (that would already introduce a preferred frame in relativity) but from what I have elsewhere called an agent situation—a physically specified situation that may or may not actually be occupied by an agent. In this Gedankenexperiment we may take an agent situation to be adequately specified by…[Read more]

editor replied to the topic Quantum theory is incompatible with relativity: A proof beyond Bell's theorem in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
Thanks, Ruth! I will need to undertand your idea more deeply.
Here is what I thought. Suppose ALice measures the particle in box 1, and then Bob meqasures the particle in box 2. These two measurements are spacelike and almost simutaneous. Then, when Alice have dectected the particle in box 1, the superpostion should collapse also in the remote…[Read more]


Ruth Kastner replied to the topic Quantum theory is incompatible with relativity: A proof beyond Bell's theorem in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
Yes, I think the definition of ‘collapse’–what collapse means physically–does matter for the issue of concern to you. In this latest post you seem to be talking about a single quantum, not an entangled state, right? Bell’s inequality concerns correlations between entangled particles.
In any case, for this singleparticle measurement, the…[Read more] 
editor replied to the topic Beyond Bell? in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
Hi Richard,
Thanks for your comments! In your paper, you said:
“In the second scenario (i.e. Bob precedes Alice) Gao argued that the Born rules yields probability 1 for the sequence of outcomes of Alices repeated zspin measurements in which every outcome is the opposite of Bobs single outcome of a measurement at point 3, and probability 0 t…[Read more]

editor replied to the topic Quantum theory is incompatible with relativity: A proof beyond Bell's theorem in the forum 2019 International Workshop: Beyond Bell's theorem 5 years ago
I think the issue is not really related to the detials. Consider a particle is in a superposition of two wellseparated boxes. When one measures the particle in one box, then the whole superposition collapses to the state in one of the two boxes. Now if the collapses of the superposition in the two boxes are not spacelike seperated in any frame,…[Read more]
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