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Richard Healey replied to the topic Is there an inconsistent friend? in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
Shan,
You say
” it seems to me that Richard’s result about the Limits of Objectivity is not valid. This result is derived from the third argument in his paper. I think the argument is based on the implicit assumption of locality, like Bell’s theorem, and one should drop this locality assumption, not the objectivity of outcomes.”Where do you thi…[Read more]
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Ruth Kastner replied to the topic Is there an inconsistent friend? in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
I would just comment here that Brukner’s formulation of the measurement problem presupposes an epistemic interpretation of the quantum state relative to a particular observer. So his analysis and conclusions do not apply to cases in which the quantum state ontologically refers. In particular, he concludes that facts are necessarily…[Read more]
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Aurelien Drezet replied to the topic Response to Frauchiger and Renner in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
Dear Friends, I discovered the work by Frauchiger and Renner yesterday.
I didn’t read the literature on the topics but I wrote a kind of comment which I put on arxiv one hour ago. Being a Bohmian my view is that actually this is just a rephrasing of Hardy’s paradox involving nonlocality between agents. The problem is not more…[Read more] -
Aurelien Drezet posted an update in the group 2018 Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 5 years, 5 months ago
Dear Friends, I discovered the work by Frauchiger and Renner yesterday.
I didn’t read the literature on the topics but I wrote a kind of comment which I put on arxiv one hour ago. Being a Bohmian my view is that actually this is just a rephrasing of Hardy’s paradox involving nonlocality between agents. The problem is not more…[Read more] -
Aurelien Drezet joined the group 2018 Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 5 years, 5 months ago
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Tony Sudbery started the topic On the second FR argument in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
On the second FR argument
The theorem claimed by Frauchiger and Renner in their recent publication in Nature Communications is different from the one they presented in their eprint arXiv:1604.07422, which was discussed in the references to this forum. Both theorems use the same extension of the Wigner’s friend experiment and claim to show that…[Read more]
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Ruth Kastner started the topic How we avoid getting to the Wigner's Friend situation in the first place in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
The Wigner’s Friend scenario was created to amplify the measurement problem as illustrated by Schrodinger’s Cat. We don’t encounter a Wigner’s Friend dilemma in the first place if we have a means of delineating, in physical terms, what constitutes ‘measurement’ (where that is described by von Neumann’s Process 1 non-unitary transition)…[Read more]
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editor replied to the topic Response to Frauchiger and Renner in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
A good paper, Dustin. Your analysis is consistent with the analyses of others, including those of Tony and Richard, which are listed in the “References related” post. Shan
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editor replied to the topic Is there an inconsistent friend? in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
Yes, Ruth. You may start a new topic to address the measurement problem.
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editor replied to the topic Is there an inconsistent friend? in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
Thanks for your comments, Nikolay.
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Dustin Lazarovici started the topic Response to Frauchiger and Renner in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
Dear all,
thanks for the opportunity to participate. My colleague Mario Hubert and I have written a comment on the paper of Frauchiger and Renner (2018) “Quantum theory cannot consistently describe the use of itself”. We believe that their “no-go theorem” doesn’t actually show anything of interest. In particular, if the proposed thought…[Read more]
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Ruth Kastner replied to the topic Is there an inconsistent friend? in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
Dear Editor: Should I start a new topic to address the measurement problem, which is what is being illustrated by the Wigner’s Friends scenario? In particular, we don’t encounter a Wigner’s Friend dilemma in the first place if we have a means of delineating, in physical terms, what constitutes ‘measurement’ (where that is described by von…[Read more]
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Nikolay L. Chuprikov replied to the topic Is there an inconsistent friend? in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
Dear Shan,
I would make one comment regarding the following statement in Abstract of the article “Quantum theory cannot consistently describe the use of itself” by Daniela Frauchiger and Renato Renner, arXiv:1604.07422v2:“Analyzing the experiment under this presumption, we find that one agent, upon observing a particular measurement outco…[Read more]
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Christian de Ronde joined the group 2018 Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 5 years, 5 months ago
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editor started the topic Is there an inconsistent friend? in the forum Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 2018 5 years, 5 months ago
I think the answer may be negative.
First, Tony in his 2017 FoP paper (p.667), as well as Baumann, Hansen and Wolf in their 2016 arxiv paper, pointed out a loophole in Frauchiger and Renner’s argument; they used the collapse postulate in SQM inconsistently.
Next, Richard in his recent FoP paper further shows that if consistently applying QM…[Read more]
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Nikolay L. Chuprikov posted an update in the group 2018 Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 5 years, 5 months ago
I want to present here my personal understanding of this issue, which is based on the ensemble interpretation of quantum mechanics. To begin with, a recent extension of Wigner’s friend thought experiment and its original variant only make sense if the Schrödinger cat paradox is interpreted as a measurement problem. However, in my opinion, such an…[Read more]
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Nikolay L. Chuprikov joined the group 2018 Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 5 years, 5 months ago
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Shane Mansfield joined the group 2018 Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 5 years, 5 months ago
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Ruth Kastner posted an update in the group 2018 Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 5 years, 5 months ago
May I add as a relevant reference:
Kastner, R. E. On the Status of the Measurement Problem: Recalling the Relativistic Transactional Interpretation
International Journal of Quantum Foundations, 2017,
Volume 4, Issue 1, pages 128-141-
I would just note that RTI is not subject to the recent ‘no-go’ proofs since it does not assert that quantum states are universally applicable; rather it has a natural limiting criterion for the applicability of quantum states. It particular, neither the Geiger counter nor the cat nor Wigner nor his friend (understood as spacetime-locatable obj…[Read more]
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Ruth Kastner joined the group 2018 Workshop on Wigner’s Friend 5 years, 5 months ago
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